Curse

Shinigami God · Dec 21, 2006, 03:01 AM // 03:01

First off, I'd like to say that this is a (semi-)rant. I think we've all seen a ton of rants against Anet's latest AI changes, as well as the new inscription system. They all complain against the inability to farm and the new ability for more casual players to obtain powerful weapons with different skins. I find myself to be a pretty active player, perhaps too active and spending too much time on the game. GW is great however, and I don't think I'm going to stop playing anytime soon. HOWEVER, I love the changes.

I'm not for the glitches that have occurred, and I don't believe the AI should be glitched, and I believe it's fixed by now. The new AI serves many purposes. Farming shouldn't be a mindless task where a person may simply renew his enchantments or spam cyclone axe and suddenly have a whole mob drop dead. This is what makes the game bottable and fuels eBay sales. Farming, if anything, should take some mental thought and skill. A decent example of this is vermin farming with a minion/pet bomber, which is not deathly hard to do, but probably wouldn't be bottable. Also, in the normal PvE view, it makes perfect sense. Even a monster (such as the devourer) with very little intelligence would probably realize it's smarter to kill the man with the rags on rather than the one with the thick steel armor.

As for the inscriptions which make rare skinned weapons with great mods accessible, here's the issue. People are angry because items with attractive skins are no longer that rare and are losing their value. However, look at it from this standpoint. GW is a video game, not real life. This being said, it's important to remember that the vast majority of the GW community are not "hardcore" players. They are mostly casual players, who don't have time to farm up the money for "leet" equipment such as FoW armor or Gold 15^50 20/20 +30 weapons. So, while the minute perecentage of the community is happy with their great equipment that is virtually unobtainable to those who only play for like an hour a day or less and feel very superior, the rest of the community is left without all this. Collector's weapons and greens were a great addition to help even out the playing ground. Still, even with the new addition of these, many greens were very expensive (Ghial's went for 50k for quite a while, and the greens which were loot from the Canthan Elite Missions went for 100k+), and the mods that could be added to collector's/weapon crafter's items were extremely expensive (such as the "of Fortitude +30" and "Sundering 20/20".) Also, there was still a vast feeling of inferiority among the large amount of us who cannot afford such equipment, even the powerful green ones or nicely modded collector's ones. Therefore, the new inscription system is almost necessary, and quite desirable. I've played for over 1000 hours in the last 8 months, have 9 characters, most of whom possess 15k armor, and all have many builds, and pretty good weapons, but I still support the inscription system. If this doesn't suit you, then you can remain feeling "superior" by purchasing FoW armor, Proph/Factions skins, and expensive mini-pets I suppose.

My final point is on the hate against Anet and Gaile Gray. I personally cannot see the point in this. They are doing everything they can to make as many players happy as possible. They've added many long-awaited changes to the game, such as the Hero system, which many do not like but I personally love just as much as the other updates (I'll never have to shout "7/8 GLF Monk for Mission and we go!!!"), the dye preview feature, the de-foggable map in dungeon areas, and the addition of a trade window which is virtually unscammable except for those stupid enough not to check the item they trade for first. There is very little point in demonising them.

In conclusion, for those of you who are scared by the long read, don't bash the new AI, the inscription system, Anet or Gaile Gray. It's important to put the enjoyment of the majority of GW, who are casual players, a little ahead of the needs of those who spend large amounts of their lives on this games to feel better than them.

Jeremy Untouchable · Dec 21, 2006, 03:11 AM // 03:11

I agree, i love the new updates...

Erik Fox · Dec 21, 2006, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Cheers!
I'm between the casual and hardcore player(Play 8 hours a day if I can, but mostly just on weekends/early morning due to school), and I don't mind the inscription/green thing going on. I like not having to scrape and save for that max Necro weapon - I can get a decent green for Erik and not become broke for 3 months. I'd say some complaining is normal, that's present in all games, but GW has far been the worst for what I've seen. There have been things I don't agree on, or think could be improved, but I don't really whine about them like some do. Gaile/Anet/Devs, you work hard for us I know even if it don't seem like it - and I thank y'all for that.

Thallandor · Dec 21, 2006, 03:47 AM // 03:47

The issues of appealing GW to the causal, or more importantly new players has been widely touched by the community at large. Its just that not everyone reads these forums very so often and participates in the dicussion, often only coming here to find blame when they experience certain difficulties, hence exist most of hate threads out there.

But before any veterans gets dissappointed and think that we are getting shafted in the interests of appealing to newer/causal players, Anet does listen to the community and make changes in the interest of the majority of playbase at large and continue to add content/improvements to the game as shown recently. This factor alone make playing the game worthwhile and the support it deserves in the long haul.

The Ernada · Dec 21, 2006, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Haha. Smaller paragraphs would help but I pretty much agree with what's said. I'll just add that there's people who played this game for the wrong reasons thinking that it would be like any other MMO. And when more changes were made steering GW away from the tradition MMO, these same people complained.

Personally, I'm glad these changes were made too.

IlikeGW · Dec 21, 2006, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Constructive criticism does not equal hate outside of propaganda circles. People just make suggestions, big deal. Are you mad people made suggestions that made the game a whole lot better over time too?

Warmaster Patton · Dec 21, 2006, 04:08 AM // 04:08

I agree with the part about Farming should b harder and just one skill and the whole group dies. For one thing, that's boring as hell. The other part is that everyone wants things to be really easy and sell easy. If something is easy to farm, the price will drops and everyone will be trying to sell them. If everyone is selling, who is buying? not very many. If you're smart, you'll farm odd places and get almost equal stuff, and if you don't tell anyone, you can have business for a long time.

The Ernada · Dec 21, 2006, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by IlikeGW

Constructive criticism does not equal hate outside of propaganda circles. People just make suggestions, big deal. Are you mad people made suggestions that made the game a whole lot better over time too?

If you actually read the end of his post he asked people to not to bash ANET or Gaile Gray. Bashing does not suggest constructive criticism. I don't see the OP saying that constructive criticism isnt allowed either.

Diablo™ · Dec 21, 2006, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Best wintersday ever.

Mad King Corn · Dec 21, 2006, 08:34 AM // 08:34

I love the new inscription system! It is now possible for the average player to custom mod a perfect weapon and the price drops on mods are awesome too, you don't have to be filthy rich to be able to make a godly weapon.

As for the heros, that was the biggest and best improvement in GW since day one.

The AI changes are ok I suppose, but I hate to chase my target across the map into other waiting mobs.

Corran Horn · Dec 21, 2006, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by IlikeGW

Constructive criticism does not equal hate outside of propaganda circles. People just make suggestions, big deal. Are you mad people made suggestions that made the game a whole lot better over time too?

I'm pretty sure he's refering to the "OMFG ANET IS TEH SUXXORS" people and not the rational, forward-thinking kind of people that give truly constructive criticism.

FoxBat · Dec 21, 2006, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinigami God

My final point is on the hate against Anet and Gaile Gray.

I hate Gaile's job. PR aka spin artist. Unfortunate that she's the only way to get any kind of two-way communication between the players and anet, sigh. Bioware/Obsidian > most companies for actually talking to their fans.

Vandal2k6 · Dec 21, 2006, 09:51 AM // 09:51

There will always be haters. Leave them be in their little shit houses to rot.

mqstout · Dec 22, 2006, 01:11 AM // 01:11

It's all good, true, and agreed with except: The insignia system does nothing to help the new and casual players.

Antheus · Dec 22, 2006, 01:28 AM // 01:28

From my experience, what Gaile gets on these boards is not hate. Even the negative and rude comments are something like love mail.

Bad feedback is considered when you start getting harrased at home and on home phone, getting death threats in mail, and unpleasant packages at your door step. That is a fairly common occurance in customer relations. Fairly, as in, it happens, which is bad enough. There was that case a while back when someone started harrasing Gaile over phone - that is when things turn ugly.

In the forums, there's a small number of players, who are anonymized by multiple accounts, and the healthy population of forum trolls who have long forgotten about the game, and merely need a way to vent frustration over something by consistent whining over whatever happens to be theme-du-jeur.

ArenaNet and PlayNC get their feedback from completely unrelated sources. From server statistics, sales figures, demographics analysis and data mining the game logs. Forums are just a side thing, which has not, and never will, in this or any other game, even remotely affect the design of the game, or any product, unless the board itself is the purpose (i.e. MySpace).

So before worrying about Anet and Gaile, they are doing their job well. It's all there is - a job.

And no, no matter what problems have arisen, or unsuitable decisions that were met, GW is currently on a selling streak, with more than positive reviews, for a 1.5 years old game. That's the big picture.

And as always, once you find the need to rage over a computer game, it's time to turn off the computer, or, if that feeling persists over longer period of time, seek counseling.

Angel Netherborn · Dec 22, 2006, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vandal2k6

There will always be haters. Leave them be in their little shit houses to rot.

The haters, the whiners, the complainers, the i-can't-farm-anymore-with-the-builds-i-copied losers, ..., the whole lot. I just ignore them. You can't convince ppl who don't want to be convinced.

NinjaKai · Dec 22, 2006, 01:46 AM // 01:46

@Antheus: Since when have the boards ever been a small thing. Most of the updates and ideas come from the community. And last I checked certain names for monsters and weapon designs were made by members of the community. Your right it is there job to improve and maintain the game. However, your view seems to be rather cynical of what you think ANet does to get feedback.

FoxBat · Dec 22, 2006, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

ArenaNet and PlayNC get their feedback from completely unrelated sources. From server statistics, sales figures, demographics analysis and data mining the game logs. Forums are just a side thing, which has not, and never will, in this or any other game, even remotely affect the design of the game, or any product, unless the board itself is the purpose (i.e. MySpace).

Watching the number of parties plummet in HA in favor of Heroway doesn't explain that it's because HA aficionados couldn't stand playing PvE.

Looking at the number of occurences of "LFG" in district chat logs doesn't explain why Party Search was so badly needed.

It's also much faster to get a heads-up about guild NPCs being absent, or Mallyx quest never triggering, or just about any bug, by hearing people point it out, than stumble upon it themselves, since they apparently didn't in internal testing.

While Gaile might be the only person who actually talks to us and reliably reads almost everything, I would be some other devs are visiting some forums, some of the time and silently reading as well. Does even half of what's suggested get implemented, no, but that's far from having "no impact at all."

Of course you want to sell to everyone, but you also need to cater somewhat to the hardcore fans who will generate the hype via fansites to make your game more successful. This is more important for online games and especially sequels/expansions to it, and also for the elite competitive players. Hence DoA which is useless to the majority of players, and I'd argue GvG is as well to a lesser degree.

Antheus · Dec 22, 2006, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinjaKai

@Antheus: Since when have the boards ever been a small thing. Most of the updates and ideas come from the community. And last I checked certain names for monsters and weapon designs were made by members of the community. Your right it is there job to improve and maintain the game. However, your view seems to be rather cynical of what you think ANet does to get feedback.

Names, designs, skills - that's all from players.

But these are labels.

Nobody likes to lose - so, let's make pvp in such a way that nobody can lose.

FoW/UW - how many complaints were there about the system. But changing it goes against the design and therefore never will happen, no matter how many posts get made.

It all looks completely differently from the other side. Look at players. A hardcore pvper will be completely unable to understand why all the fuss over 1 out of 274,000 getting slightly changed. And chest runner will be furious over the way one stance got changed to solve a HA gimmick build.

Big picture is what it's about. Is grouping really a problem? Is DoA really too hard? Is favor really the issue?

Looking at server logs it's possible to get a really acurate view of how long it takes for players to forum groups. Then you cross reference this data against completions and failures, and you plot that against number of disconnects to see the mission success rate.

How far do players really get into DoA? How many wipe at first mob, how many complete it? How many groups/players finished individual missions, how many gems get dropped. All hard numbers.

The only thing that boards reflect, is players' perception. That is intangible and scientific. Is Searing Flames overpowered? The general perception is yes. Is DoA too hard - the general perception is yes. Is Otyough's call (sp) worthless? Once again, yes.

Those aren't facts, they might be even completely opposite of what numbers say. But this is where the true management becomes important. You obviously cannot cater to every flawed perception (all of those are flawed of course), but what if something simply doesn't work? How far do you go? Do you nerf SF? Or do you publish a list of skills that can beat it, and hope players will catch on (they won't).

So how do you fix SF. It's not overpowered by numbers. How to fix it so that it remains useful, but in a way that it's no longer perceived as too powerful?

But numbers on the other side look completely different. In case of SF, it takes certain strategy and a selection of skills to beat it. Many will chime in, and tell you exactly that. But many others won't listen.

This is the true problem that publishers have. When to give in into perceived problems, especially when they aren't supported by numbers?

Let's say you're a car developer. What do you do if Joe Sixpack comes into your factory, and starts calling you names for not providing a cup holder that holds six beers? Given that 27% of your population are people like him, do you give in? Will you really improve your SUV that's marketed at families with children by adding beer holders? 27% of population thinks so. Do they really know what your car needs? Do they really understand your manufacturing, sales, marketing, legal and goverment processes that you need to undergo when developing a car, along with long-term corporate strategy of combined American, European and Asian markets, that are being adjusted to expand into China? Are they aware of the number of tests each change must undergo, and the millions of dollars of costs associated with it?

Do you really want to listen to Joe Sixpack? No. But keep an eye on them.

Once you beat nightfall, look at credits. Do you really think that a player and forum jock knows better than those 200+ people who do this for a living, most of them with long years of experience in the very industry?

chessyang · Dec 22, 2006, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

most of them with long years of experience in the very industry?

well put... Amen to that

in the days of D2 it was ok but I'm glad Anet is listening or has an ear open to us at least